Write Out Loud x Literally Books: What Readers Want

Write Out Loud x Literally Books: What Readers Want

Matt: Welcome to Write Out Loud. I'm Matt, of course, your enthusiastic guide to the playground of prose, where we discuss everything from spine tingling plots to heartwarming narratives. Alongside me is my brilliant co host Christina, whose vibrant personality is as colorful as a painter's palette. Christina is not only a dazzling conversationalist, but also an imaginative genius with an act for turning the mundane into the magical. Her spirited insights and joyous laughter are sure to keep you entertained and inspired. So grab your favorite writing snack, settle in, and let's embark on this delightful journey together.

Welcome to write out loud where your voice is the story we're telling.

Christina: Wow. Someone did some writing work this weekend.

Matt: No, someone invoked chat GPT and said, uh, write me an introduction and make it as colorful about Christina as possible. So I thought I'd surprise you with that.

Christina: an AI wrote that and not you.

Matt: Yes, yes, yes, yes. But in all seriousness . That is not what tonight is about. We are here and we are very excited to be joined by the co hosts of literally books. We've got Magda and Lindsey. Welcome both.

Christina: No.

Lindsay: Hello.

Matt: Hello.

Magda: you for having us.

Lindsay: every week for Christina. I'm like, man, Magda and I are really not great to each other. We're just like, Hey, what's up?

Magda: I know. Let's do this thing. I

Christina: know, the

Matt: It's.

Christina: is, is that Matt has been this way his whole entire life. mean, we've known each other for 30 years, Matt,

Matt: Yeah, probably

Christina: And he is, I mean, it. You should see me in my 20s. Like, when this first started happening, it was like, who is this and why are they complimenting me? So yeah, that's, it's,

Matt: it's a lavishing praise

Christina: to it. But you never get, you never get used to the way he does it. Never.

Magda: think whenever I get I need to pick me up. I'm just going to call you

Matt: you. Yes, you absolutely can.

Christina: Yes.

Magda: my intro song.

Christina: Yep.

Matt: You absolutely can. Exactly.

Christina: hugs, and unfortunately, we're all in, in separate places, so you can't experience that, but his hugs are the best.

Matt: Well, we have decided to, to bring our friends with us on this little journey, because we want to talk a little bit about what readers want. And just, kind of get in there because I think, if you're not familiar with literally books, what are you doing with your life? First of all fantastic podcast.

You really should listen. I mean, they have video there. I mean, they have video. You can actually see them, right? It's even better. But. The stories they tell that the, the way that they kind of really delve into the stories and just dissect them and explore them. And, sort of, it's almost like drinking, sipping from a fine wine and letting it sit for a second on your tongue.

It's, that's what they do with those books and it just brings it to life for me. So I love it. You should love it.

Christina: And, and, uh,

Matt: and we're very happy to have them here.

Christina: There have been numerous times that like, I mean, pad and pencil and writing down what books they talk about, recommend. There have been times oh God, and I'm gonna forget the name. Was it Andy Weir? I forget the title of the one and I'm like, you guys, the way,

Magda: Hail Mary.

Christina: yeah, I, the way you guys explain that, it's normally not my type of book that I pick up. But just the way that you talked about it was just like, oh my God, this is, this is a must read. Must read

Lindsay: I'm getting fidgety over here. This is too many. We didn't write these books. We just really

Christina: Yes,

Matt: Yeah,

Christina: yes,

Matt: but we, we felt like the discussion was really proper for this because, again, as we sort of said, like your, your podcast is focused on the stories, right? And the books and the things that you enjoy. And sometimes not enjoy, but mostly enjoy and we think for you listening, like, if you're looking for ideas, this is the perfect time for us to come together and and sort of help you think about what that next great story might be.

Christina: yeah, I the reason why I wanted to do this topic is You know, sometimes writers in their little room it's solitary. I also think that the view from a writer isn't, they're not sitting there going, okay, what do want? What is their perspective? Because, and by all means, they really shouldn't when they're actually writing. But I think sometimes that it's a little bit of an unknown. And I thought we could explore some thoughts on, the market itself. where an author comes from some of those things, are they influential to what it is that you pick up?

Matt: So, I guess the 1st question is. Is there any sort of topics out there that you just are hoping someone's going to write or, any ideas that you've just been pining for, like, ah, if we could just get a novel

that tells this kind of story,

Christina: Is there a void? Is there like, man, if only someone would write this. Like, I think it would explode the world and they'd become the next bestselling author.

Magda: Yeah, so like, I don't know if there's a void per se, but like, I feel like we live in a pretty lucky time where like, I think Christina, we were chatting offline about it. Like, authors are able to kind of self publish and we get so much content and we're so lucky that we get to consume all kinds of kinds of different genres. And I don't know, like, personally, when I find something that I love to read, like, I think last year, I think it was my romantasy era. That it was just like nonstop, just like, I just need to read everything that is romantasy and I just need to consume it as quick as possible. And then you start going down this path of like readers like this, and then you start reading and then you start kind of deviating from the original intent of what you were trying to get to.

And you're like, no, no, no. That was. Too far on the wrong direction. I need to kind of come back into my little romantasy genre. So we're just really lucky to be able to kind of have so much content out there from either traditionally published, authors or independently published ones, um, and it's just about, about finding the right niche that you're going to be reading at least personally.

Lindsay: Yeah, I, I'm going to steal from Rick Rubin a little bit because he has this like great quote about like not focusing on what the audience wants, but focusing on what you all want as the audience. As the creator and how like that's the difference between art and commerce is commerce is worrying about the audience. is being the creator and worrying about what feels natural to you. And for me, I think what I want more of is like specificity and perspectives. Like I think sometimes artists feel like they need to write in a way, particularly like artists in more marginalized groups, they take on the onus of having to write on behalf.

of the entire group. And so it has to be sort of more, you know, dilute. And I love it when I read a story that I'm like, I, this is like, no one I've read. I want 7 million pages on this person 

Magda: Okay. Okay. 

Okay. 

Christina: what it is that they're looking for. And they go, okay, it's not out there. I'm going to write it for myself. Like, I don't, I, I, I really don't. And that's not necessarily where my question came from with, you know, filling the void. Um, it was more, you know, this desire to write, it's always there, but it's actually when you notice, okay, this book was missing this, this book was missing this, this, you know, there isn't a full picture. So I think when they start writing for themselves, I think they write better. Because I think if they actually do go in there and again, this is really why I wanted to do this, this episode if they go in there going, what do readers want? What do readers want? I think they're always chasing something rather than figuring out what story they want to tell or what they're driven to or what they're passionate about. topic, but void as in feelings. Like, there's not enough funny books out there or there's not enough um, stories that are just pure joy. First I've got to go through all this angst, you know, before I can get to the ending. And then some aren't guaranteed that happy ending, like that. So yeah, I think that's really, really interesting.

Matt: I think it's one of those things too, where the question becomes a little possibly perilous, because you start thinking about what do people want to your point? What do people want? What do they want? And then you start chasing trends. You're like, Oh, well, this is getting hot. Then you start. And honestly, by the time it's a trend, it's almost too late, right?

Like it's 

Christina: Unless. 

Matt: it isn't too late, 

Christina: you are 

Matt: but it's almost too late.

Christina: that says there's a million vampire stories out there, but I've got a great idea. And you write one. that to me was kind of a little bit of the J. R. Ward at the time that she was coming out, Christine Feehan was huge. Stephanie Meyer was huge. I mean, there were all these vampire authors. She said, I'm going to do it just a little different. And it was great. And it was great. And she's, you know, made quite a career out of writing them.

Magda: Yeah. And I think, like I mentioned earlier, like, you know, like last year with my romanticist year, like I read so many different books that were written after the whole hype with like fourth wing and Sarah J Maas, and you can kind of start reading the quality of the stories is not what I was used to, because I think that authenticity is no 

Christina: Yeah. 

Magda: I'm like, I already know what you're going to. 

me through. Like I already know like step by step what like this chapter is going to do or this part of the book. Um, become of like what you guys were mentioning earlier, which is just kind of trying to write something that you truly enjoy because I think that joy is going to transmit through when the reader is actually reading the story.

Like if you're just going through, hey, I think this is going to be popular. I don't think us as readers are going to be able to kind of capitalize on what you're trying to 

Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think you hit the nail on the head that the authenticity isn't there. The, the emotion, the passion, the excitement of the writer coming to the computer to be excited about the story I mean, during the first couple of years of my editing and coaching business, I did free 30 minute sessions. it was so interesting because there was a pattern and over again. Every single author wanted to know how to make more money, but every single one of those authors was writing in a genre they hated. They were writing romance because it sells and they want to make money. But most of them wanted to write something different.

I mean, they were all actually different genres, like mystery and, you know, other things. And they just felt like if they the romance into it, it would work out. So yeah, that authenticity, that, you can feel it. You can feel it. Yeah. Um, segues into another question I had, about um, you know, the traditionally published and self published and authenticity.

Um, I was just reading article that some metrics It's by written word media. Um, Matt, I'll link up, um, to the article, itself, on our website but it says 76. 2 percent of authors are self published, 16 percent are hybrids, meaning they both self publish and traditionally publish, and 7.

8 percent just traditionally published. Do any of those things have meaning for you as a reader, like when you are searching out those books to review for the podcast or even just select for yourself, do you tend to shy away from self publish, be wary of it or get excited about it because, oh, gosh, I'm going to get something totally unlike anything else I've read or do you the other way?

I actually have um, one reviewer friend that. She will not review self published. She is strictly a traditional publisher, but she's print media. She's print media review, so, um, she sells to new, she sells her reviews She's syndicated with like a circulation of 250, 000. So I can kind of understand she'd be too overwhelmed. Uh, with a sheer number of self published authors. but what do you guys think? Is there, is there connotations for you for either one?

Magda: don't really pay too much attention to the publishers. I think I get a lot of my recommendations from like word of mouth um, that could either be friends, family members, uh, or like people that I work with. I don't normally go through like, Oh, I want to see who like, so far. I think I just recently started kind of learning who are like, who's like red tower publishing, because they make some beautiful copies and that's it.

Like, I think outside of that, like I am. really clueless to a lot of like, who's publishing water or who's doing what. And I think it's just mostly comes from like, what are other readers enjoying? And are they liking it? Which can be a double edged sword, I guess, because if like, they don't come from a traditionally published. company, they might not get as much advertisement or publicity as we would want. So maybe some of those stories could potentially get buried. And I do understand that, but like, I'm still kind of relying quite heavily on from friends and family. I don't really go through like Goodreads anymore.

Goodreads has let me down multiple times. Um, so mostly a lot of like what my friends and family are reading. And then I kind of started getting into that as well.

Matt: Nice.

Lindsay: Yeah, I'm kind of with Magda. I don't necessarily care as much about where it comes from, but I am going to say something maybe that's like a bit of a hot take, which is I do think that authors, not to toot your horn, Christina, but I think you have to have an editor. Like, you have to have maybe that's because, like, I also came up in, like, a workshop environment in my, like, experience with reading and writing, but I very much believe that you need someone there make you, like, cut your little darlings and things that just don't belong, that you're too attached to, and it's way too hard to be super objective about your own art.

And I, I, so I do lean into, like, a traditionally published book in that way, and that I think that there are some, like, necessary vets. that that process goes through that makes the 

Christina: Yeah, 

Lindsay: stronger 

Christina: For me, even just as a reader um, like you Magda, like I'm done with good reads. I'm done with good reads. I've not found anything

good off of there. I am usually someone who 

Matt: Yes. 

Christina: Oh, they're really tough. Like, again, I think um, we, we spoke about this. know, earlier before podcast, there was a, a really great book that you guys were talking about. That's normally not my genre. And I'm like, I've got to read this book. I've got to read this book. Um, and so I, myself, I really do go by. Um, for the podcast if we've got a guest on, we read that so I'm, I'm, being introduced in a different way. To, you know, things they normally would not read. but I do on the other piece of it as an editor, I do have trouble unless it's a really fantastic story that I will overlook. Grammar, other things that an editor may catch. Um, so it's, it's kind of, for me as a reader, it tends to go like this, I love self publish I really feel like the unique stories are more there. Because they can take all the risks and all the chances and if something doesn't fly they move on to the next one. Traditional publishing can't do that. They have to stick real close to Where are sales? Where is the market? How do we Categorize this book? How do we market this book? And if they can't answer those in an immediate Here are our dollars. Then, you know, are they going to give something a shot? So yeah um, like both of you, I tend to dabble in everything, but it is mostly readers, other readers um, other authors, other that I get recommendations from that I want to read.

Matt: Yeah. I, for me, it's, it, it doesn't really matter. As long as it's good. I will say I'm with you, Magda. I get a lot of mine from friends and family, just seeing people. And also we've been to a couple of like local coffee shops, coffee houses where people are sitting and reading an actual book, which I think is a novelty.

Cause I'm so used to just read, like, I don't, I read on my, my device all the time. Right. And. But that's actually helped me discover a bunch of books that I want to read and have been able to kind of find them that way. So it's, it's kind of, uh, it's kind of interesting, but I mean, to the point of like self published versus traditional, I don't necessarily care.

It is harder sometimes for me to make it through. Like I was listening to an audio book for a new, a new book that I just picked up the, this week. And there were so many mispronunciations. 

Magda: Okay. 

Matt: In the audio book that I just couldn't get past it. I was just like, Ooh,

no, no, no. Yeah, it was, it was rough.

Right. But like the overall story was good, but it was just very hard to get past that. Cause it kept taking you out of the, 

the world. Right.

So I think that's the risk you run sometimes with the self published that's not to say that self published couldn't hire an editor that couldn't hire, several of them, right.

Like they can and they should Christine is available.

But yeah. I mean, this is one of those things like you just that that's the risk you run is the DIY stuff could be less quality.

Christina: One of my very, very favorite, writers, Taryn Fisher, the number was just mind boggling. I think she has five editors, like five different editors. There's one that is her first reader who, gives her whatever.

And then like each of the editors get a different. know, time in the book. and then of course, that includes proofreaders and, other things, but I was just, it was like, wow, no wonder, like every word in her book is like reading poetry, only it's not poetry only. It's mostly just. It's kind of scary stuff, thrillers, 

so, but she's just so good.

Magda: You know, I'm, I'm always in awe of people that are kind of, they get, or authors that they get discovered through fan fictions. So I think like one of the writers that I really enjoy, you know, it's Allie Hazelwood and she was discovered by writing like Star Wars fan fiction. And they're like, you know what, you have like really good writing.

And it was Harper Collins, the ones that came and found her and, and they found her. And I think it was because she was coming from a point of view of like. I really want to be able to kind of see what 

happens with these characters and nobody's writing it. So I'm going to go ahead and do it. And there was obviously readers that wanted to read that and she became part, she developed quite a bit of a following online and that's still kind of what allowed her to become a published author in the traditional sense. We also kind of see something similar with, I don't know if you guys are familiar with the Harry Potter fan fiction, but with Manacle, it's like a really big Hermione and Draco Malfoy fanfic that it's has a massive following.

And there's actually like. 

Matt: Oh, wow.

Magda: book in Spotify from the fanfiction. They already took everything down because it got bought and it's going to be published.

And one of the main things that everybody's so excited about is like, oh, it's going to go through editors now. So they're actually going to clean up the fanfiction, go through the whole process. So it's going to make it a lot more palatable for the people that want to be able to read this. And it's pretty exciting.

And I think maybe that kind of speaks to maybe some of the voids that are kind of originating from like, Fan fiction that are now turning into like published books that 

people want to read. I

Matt: Wow. 

Christina: Yeah. I think um, fan fiction is kind of a unique backdoor. It's a way to so it's actually several points as I'm thinking about it. Um, it's kind of the backdoor to testing out. You're writing, are people going to read me? Number two, there's an author Sylvia Day who said, you literally have to write three books before you publish, because those three books are teaching you how you write, who you are as a writer.

It's basically the first three books are figuring out what you're doing. And like, you know, by the third one, you're ready to publish. fan fiction does a lot of that. know, as far as mechanics go um, but it's so interesting. Cause there are so many different ways, but I've heard of the, the Draco Malfoy and the, are they going to change the names of? The characters or

Magda: don't know. All I know is that like, I think from what I've heard, I haven't read it yet. But like each chapter kind of starts with a summary of like what happened before. So it's kind of repetitive a little bit. So now they're trying to clean that up quite

a bit. They already 

Matt: Hmm. 

Magda: I don't think you can find that online anymore.

Like they've 

taken as much, I'm

sure you can, if you go 

Christina: yeah, 

Magda: some dodgy sites um,

Christina: yeah, 

Magda: everything out. And I, what I was surprised is like, I didn't even know there was an audio book for fan fiction that Spotify was like, we're going to have somebody read this out

because there's so much 

Matt: Yeah. 

Magda: even though it wasn't that great, you know, it still needed a lot of editing, but people really wanted to consume this because I get it.

Like I grew up with Harry Potter, 

so that's probably a void in my heart. 

Christina: yeah, 

Matt: Yeah, 

yeah, yeah.

Christina: yeah,

Lindsay: fanfic is interesting because it has a built in readership to some extent too, right? Like, if you're already familiar with the world of something, then have a following already built into some, except for people that are like that. And I, I feel like it's a double edged sword.

Like, I love the idea of it. I love the idea of people taking a story that they love and building on it and making it their own. But there's also, I don't know, maybe it's the creator of me, but I'm like, that scares me to have something out of my hands, take on this new life. And I also think it's just. It's like a cheat code. I don't know. I want people to like delve into their own stuff and create something new that's never been heard of before, not build on a structure that another artist has sort of built. I don't know. Maybe that's 

not fair of me, but that's, yeah,

Christina: yeah, 

Matt: I understand that feeling 100%. Like, I think, it is scary. It's something especially you can you imagine yourself as a brand new author, right? And you just get lucky enough that your debut novel just takes off. And now all of a sudden there's all this fan fiction stuff that you're like, wait a minute, hold up.

Like I haven't gotten a chance to like build this out yet. Right. Like it's, 

uh, yeah, I can see that.

Christina: yeah. 

Matt: can see that.

Christina: went to the school of Nora Roberts. she, a lot of people ask her, Oh, don't you hate that? That, it was made into a movie and it, terrible or whatever. She says, no, my book, my book still exists. It's still my book. It still exists. Everybody can go out and read my books. they're, they're still there and great. so I kind of feel like that about fan fiction, the author's book is still there and maybe people that, okay, so just using. Uh, Draco and Hermione as an example, maybe someone had never heard of Harry Potter and they're like, Oh, this fan fiction is so good. I wonder how the book is, and go read it.

So clearly, not that, but, I know for a little bit, a little bit after Heartstopper was over season one, and we were in this long wait for two and three, and I read all the, all the books. know, all of her books I did go on to, what is it, AO, AO3 or something like that. It's a fan fiction. and I was reading Heartstopper and I was like, Oh, I love this. This is great. They get to live on for a little while. do I know who wrote it? Absolutely. Was it than what she did? No, can still go back to, Turley and, and Nick and her. And her stuff. yeah, do. I think someone should make money it.

See, that's why I'm worried about the Hermione Draco thing. Cause I'm like, Ooh, what, what publisher is taking that on to like, 

Matt: Yeah. 

Christina: let's comb through this copyright on these, Harry Potter books. and can we use the names and can we use references and what do we need to, Oh, that's just a,

Matt: Yep. Yep.

Lindsay: I do love a, I have to say that, like, I do love a reimagining because even in the same example, like Magda and I recently read a book by LeDaron Williams called Blood at the Root, which wasn't a, not a fan fiction of a Harry Potter. It's a reimagining of a magical school from the perspective of a young black boy.

And he has said like he, as a young black boy reader, like loved Harry Potter books, loved fantasy, but didn't see himself And the story, like he said, it's, it's like, imagine if Harry Potter went to an HBCU and that's what hooked us. Cause we're like, okay, we have a place to start from in this world. We kind of get the vibe, but like the book is nothing at all.

Like Harry Potter. It isn't sort of like, he's out of school. You get to meet his friends. But that for me was like, Oh, this is something new. This is something different. This is a gap in this 

genre that I've never heard before. So like that

Christina: yeah. Yeah. 

Lindsay: of like the fan fiction that I think is more interesting.

It's not referencing anything in Harry Potter. It's just using the architecture of the genre in a way that's not been told before. And that I think is like that in its best version for me.

Matt: Yeah, that's really cool. That is really cool. 

Magda: And I think 

Matt: So 

Magda: was so authentic though, because I think he was bringing it from his own experience. And I think that kind of circles back to what we were talking about earlier. 

Matt: I 100 percent agree. Uh, no, I was going to say, we're just into, we, we've kind of hit on a lot of the things that we're either yearning for that we've really loved, but what about things that were just like, okay, enough already. I don't need any more. Stop. Just, just, just stop.

Lindsay: I can't, I personally don't believe like there are things that I'm, I'm done with, like, I personally, I'm going to take a little break from romanticy. It was like my favorite genre for a long while. I'm not seeing anything that's like, Hitting me in the right place. But like, I am a firm believer that like, if that's your genre and you want to read 300 iterations of the same book, like I want that for someone, I don't ever want to say make less of it.

Like make more of it. I want 7, 000 books. I don't know. I don't, I personally am like, yeah, make it all. I want, I want to see every book you can offer.

Matt: Okay. I like it.

Magda: Maybe, yeah, like, I'm kind of on the same boat. Like, I think there's something for everybody out there. I think personally, like, I think what Lindsay mentioned with Romantici, but also like, I don't know. There's out there who this could get me in trouble, but a lot of the self help books,

maybe there's Hmm.

out there that I'm like, is there like an actual need for this?

Or are we kind of preying on somebody that is like in need of help? And I think that

kind of, Yeah. a trained Yeah. I don't know anything about this. But every time I go into a bookstore, I'm like, wow, there's something For everybody. But I mean, again, there's something for everybody out there.

And maybe one of those books is going to speak to them. but yeah, I don't know.

Lindsay: No, Magda's right. No more diet books. No

Matt: Yes. Yeah.

Lindsay: of those. Get those out of here. That's the only one that I'm like, I don't want to see another one ever in my life. But everything else.

Matt: I agree. I, yeah, I, oh yeah, I agree. I think for me, I'll sort of adopt that. A little bit of the middle of that, right? Which is I a hundred percent in line with that. I'm good with that. That's I'm on board. Let's get on that train. But the other side to your point, Lindsay, I feel like it's sort of the pineapple on pizza debate, right?

Like you don't have to like it, but if somebody else does, okay, great. Run with it. Go. I'm not touching it. That might get me in trouble. You see,

Christina: I have always, know, been that way. I mean, my moniker has always been book matchmaker, but that came from my store days when I worked in the store and then when I was at the home office at borders because I realized very early on this was just a few years. into, I was still in college, working at the bookstore and I was running a romance book club and there were two people in the book club that absolutely loved Diana Palmer. I couldn't get through one page of Diana Palmer. So it actually made me take a step back as a bookseller and say, okay, don't need to recommend books I love to these people. need to find books that they will love. So I need to find, okay, so the two women that love Diana Palmer, I just need to understand who writes like Diana Palmer order to suggest to them. So I come from a completely different background. in that way, so I. and also as an editor putting that same on, I have people coming to me who are writing genres and, sub genres and, tropes and things like that, that have been done a million times, but when you read it from that one person and they have a different voice and a different thought and a different, and they can do so much. of my, I'm going to one and only time I think I've ever done this on this podcast. I have a romance writer who writes club books I was tired of them, but I read her first book and I actually had a personal conversation with Lorelai and we were both like, this is somebody we know. This is another romance writer that we know who is written under a new name. And of course she came out and said, no, no, no, no, I, is my first book. I'm like, it can't be. but she wrote that genre so different from everybody else. So, and it was, far into. Sons of Anarchy was, probably almost done and was a laundry list of, of, um, other writers writing motorcycle club books, but she did it so magically. So I'm never one that is going to say, don't write that trend because you always have a different perspective. You're always a different person. writing it and you're going to bring your own experiences like you were talking about with that black boy who didn't see himself in Harry Potter. that's the kind of things that we need is what is missing from that great trend that you can insert into it. this motorcycle club author, she's just, the way she writes is. Poetry it made the genre feel totally different, totally different. yeah, so I'm, I'm, I'm not one that's going to say this is overdone because what if there's that one person out there that really wants to write something and they've got a fantastic idea, a new twist on it. So yeah.

Matt: the only thing I could think of potentially that might be universal is vampires. Like, I think if you ask the universe, like, what should we stop writing? They might say just off the top is a hot take, right? They might say that. I don't agree. 

You should write what you, what you want, but

Christina: What would we do in the shadows? 

Matt: it feels like that would be pop culture. I don't know.

Lindsay: I'm fine with more. I want more

Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll take it. I'll take it. 

Magda: and like, I 

Matt: Awesome.

Magda: point though, like, I think, yes, we have a lot of vampire stories, but like, if you look at different books, the vampires look different and the origins of them is different. So I think kind of keeping that fresh perspective or at least attempting to is what's going to keep their readers engaged.

Silence. 

Christina: does that authenticity and excitement come through, the new idea is something that we've never seen, you know? And I think that to me, um, is always my reader discussion is, there's always something new and a new way of looking at it. That's going to feel fresh.

Matt: Yeah. There was, it's interesting because. When you say that, like, I think about this one story that I would have never ever sought out on my own, but I happened upon it. It was a self published, uh, I guess novella. It wasn't very long, but it was about two serial killers. That crossed paths and then are all of a sudden in this like life and death struggle to outdo one another like to literally kill each other and they it's this whole fight to of of how they kind of go about it.

And it was such a wild story again. Nothing I would have ever sought out, but I just happened upon it. I think somebody had mentioned it on social media or whatever. I found it. Reddit was enthralled with it. And I have not to this day been able to find it again, like, couldn't tell you who the author was, and it just kills me.

But again, it's one of those things where you find this story, right, that some person who was very talented at writing put out into the world, wasn't traditionally published, and it was a fantastic story. And again, that's something I would have normally 

gravitated towards.

Christina: Okay, if this is you 

and you know that this is your book that Matt is describing must rate into the podcast. We can

Matt: Yes. 

Christina: what this is.

Matt: Please tell me. Yeah, but it was, it was, it's awesome. So I love, I love being able to discover stuff like that.

Christina: So I I think what would be great is If we wrap up this podcast Asking one last question in the last year, in the last few months, whatever. 

is the one book? 

Magda: Okay. 

Christina: than one. Um, that you would say. must read this right now because it is so good there's not enough attention around it. What would it be? 

Lindsay: Oh my gosh, this is such a hard question. literally looking at my bookshelf. Like, what, what is that book?

Magda: And let me look at the books I've read this year.

Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.

Lindsay: Yeah,

You go Magna. I was gonna say if he doesn't have enough attention, I think he does say is I think immediately like I think my highlight for this year is still to this day is going to be Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir, but like that one's getting enough attention like it's being made into a movie.

Magda: It's really big. Go actually do the audiobook because it's amazing. One of the best things I've heard. But if you want something that doesn't have enough attention, I think there's a book called Real Americans by Rachel Kong a multi generational family story. And this is not something that I would normally seek out.

I think Lindsay will attest to this. And it's a beautiful story about an immigrant family that just with me and it's three different generations stole from three different point of views and it's amazing. I don't feel like a lot of people talk about this book and it's a beautiful and thralling story and people should read that.

Lindsay: can't pick just one. Can I pick

Christina: Yeah. Yeah. two?

Matt: Yes.

Lindsay: Okay. Uh, 'cause it's like we're, we're all over the Magna and I read everything. Like, the benefit of having each other is that we force each other to read everything. So it's just totally depends on your mood. But, uh, we read a book recently that we both love called The Games God's Play by Abigail Owen. Thank you. That's the, that's the reaction I was hoping for. Magna. It's sort of like, like a hunger games, but within the lens of Greek mythology, it's just like a. Fun read like it's satisfying the characters are three dimensional. It's emotionally mature. It has a strong female lead, but she's not like heroic.

Like, it's just solid in the genre in a way that is not like a retold. And yeah, it's just, it's so good. So good. But that one's just like a good, like, little, snack. And then the thing that I've been thinking about a lot is Cleopatra and 

Frankenstein by Coco Mellors. 

Christina: that sounds

Matt: Hmm.

Lindsay: And I'm not going to tell you anything about it because it's so much better to go in cold with that title and be like, what is this freaking book Well, that's what I'm thinking is this title is just, oh my God.

Matt: For me. And it isn't, this wasn't intentional. This just came up with this question. Uh, not because he's been on the podcast, but it is Michael Fedor's how to kill a bull moose . Really, really, really fell in love with that story. And that's kind of my genre anyway. So it's sort of natural maybe that that is the case, but it was such a well told story and I just really, really, really, really fell in love with it.

So.

Christina: Now I feel like I have to pick a different one because mine is also someone we've had on the podcast so I. as an editor, I do a lot of reading and editing. And so sometimes find it difficult to just be a reader, but Ruby Dixon, when I had a client and Really kind of another industry member that we're both like, you've got to read Ice Planet Barbarians. and I, yeah, no seriously, if you two have not read Ice Planet Barbarians, go download it right now. because I was really expecting it to be just, simple and like, I'm not a sci fi I'm romance, but I'm not sci fi. And, I read the first one and I immediately downloaded the second and read it and doubt, I mean, like in a week I had gone through like eight books and there's, I don't even know how many there are.

There's probably like 30 

Magda: yeah, there's, 

Christina: and there's, 

spinoffs and there's, yeah, there's spinoffs and there's, and we had her 

on, uh, recently for Bull Moon Rising, which Romanticy, speaking of which is kind of in that. it really felt to me like, Oh, shadow and bone, that kind of tone and feel kind of like steampunk meets historical a little bit, but yet modern, so that's kind of like that steampunk, but ice planet barbarians that to me, Man, uh,

Matt: Nice.

Christina: it made me a reader again.

It totally brought me back to a time where I was not reading to sell. I was not reading to edit. I was not reading to, market books. it brought me back to being a reader again. So that's, that's gotta be mine.

Matt: Love it. Love it. Well, Magda, Lindsay, thank you so much for being on the show. Uh, would love to give you just a moment to kind of shout out, talk a little bit more about anything you want to promote, whether it's the podcast itself or, or whatever. So take it away.

Magda: so you can find our podcast where all of our socials on Instagram. Mostly, if you guys want to follow us, we're underscore literally books. And then you can also check out our website, literallybooks. com. You're going to see all of our socials listed there, episode, book reviews, all that kind of fun stuff.

And see, I don't know

Matt: And did I mention they have video

they're on video, you can see them.

Lindsay: You can see us. Unfortunately, you can see us. You can see us laugh at each other all day while we talk about literally every and any kind of book you can think of.

Matt: That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, it was a lot of fun having you on. I know we had a blast when we were on your show. So if you guys haven't listened to that, please head out and do that now as well. Again, thank you both very, very much for joining us. And you know what? Thank you for listening. Keep on writing.

Keep on creating. Keep on sharing it with the world because the world deserves to hear your voice.

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