Crafting Intrigue: The Mystery Box in Storytelling

The Art of Intrigue: The Mystery Box in Storytelling

Matt: Welcome everybody to write Out Loud the podcast about writing, storytelling, authorship, creativity, and just bringing stories to life.

I, of course, am joined by the lovely, magical, mystical, and really just. Amazing. Christina.

Christina: I was just gonna say charming,

Matt: Ultra magical.

Christina: ultra, ultra magical.

Matt: Yes, ultra magical.

Christina: Oh,

Matt: The most beloved, most wonderful intangible. Christina,

Christina: what does it intangible? I don't even know what that means in that context.

Matt: like, you're just that good that we can't even grasp you, like, yeah.

Christina: replicate me

Matt: Nope. The ir, ir replicable.

Christina: And in some circles they wouldn't want to.

Matt: But we are, we're, as you can tell, slightly, uh, punchy because we want to talk about something that is, well, a little bit intriguing. It is outside of the box, uh, and at the same time inside the box.

Christina: Yes.

Matt: we're talking about a TED Talk by JJ Abrams and what is the topic?

Christina: I believe the title of it is, and I could Be wrong about this 'cause it was years ago that I, I, um, first saw it, uh, he titles it the Mystery Box. Which, those that are familiar with Lost,

Matt: Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Christina: of Lost. He frames the TED Talk, with this mystery box that he was really into magic as a child, and I think it was his grandfather that, they'd go and they'd things and. He got, and I don't remember if it was the grandfather or him or whoever it was that he, did this with, they got this mystery box. So, and it actually says like, mystery box. And believe, if I'm not mistaken, that to this day he's never even opened it. He has no idea what's in there.

Matt: Oh wow.

Christina: But it, I think it more or less became a metaphor.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: For his storytelling because it actually became more of an obsession to keep it the mystery, because that was the interesting part of it

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: than it was to find out what was inside of

Matt: Oh, yep. Yep.

Christina: I don't even remember if he talked about this, but this is what I got out of the TED Talk. It's actually one of my favorite storytelling ones to go back to again and again. And the best way to explain it is, in storytelling. The mystery box is that you don't know everything when you open the pages of the book. You don't know everything when you start show or the movie. Lost is a perfect example of that. You've watched the first episode and if you know nothing about lost, like I can absolutely remember the night it debuted on A, B, C, because. You sit there and you go, what am I watching? Like is this?

Matt: Yeah. I'm very lost.

Christina: and there were things that they didn't put in the trailers, which thank God because keep some of it mystery. Like I think my biggest pet peeve with trailers is if you put all of the good stuff in the trailer and then I'm watching the movie and there's nothing.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Left to discover, you

Matt: What's the point?

Christina: just watch the trailer over and over, what's the point? but so lost is that, but it's also, so when I watch a show or a movie with my family, because I come from the storyteller, know, area, um, they'll often say. What's happening? What, why did they do that? What's going on? And a lot of times I can explain it to them because I can, see what's going on or figure it out or whatever. But there are some times I have to respond. I have no idea. That's what it would've been like watching lost with me and my family.

Matt: Sure.

Christina: I, I have no idea either. I have, I'm seeing the same information you're seeing.

I'm not, I don't have a secret, 

Matt: Yep.

Christina: um,

Matt: I don't know the showrunner's notes.

Christina: Yeah. The showrunner's notes is right. so the idea of the mystery box to me is some of the best ways to engage the audience, because I can't tell you the film and television medium because it's easier to explain. Um, when I don't know what's going on in the show itself, I am engaged. I am watching every second it is a show, that can follow along by not really watching and either being on my phone, on social media or playing a game or cooking or, doing something

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: That's what I'm talking about by being engaged,

Matt: Sure.

Christina: in it,

Matt: Especially if it's well written and you want to know what the mystery is and you're trying to figure out as you go along, right. It, it pulls you in.

Christina: I was just gonna say in book terms, that would be like me having a page turner.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: what happens next. I gotta, I gotta figure this mystery out. I gotta, and I don't think it is For the genre of mystery,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: I think you can use the mystery box, in other ways.

I actually had a client, not too long ago, gonna write the third book in her series, and we were chatting because, I know the characters from, the previous book, and was saying, I, I'm not sure. What the thing is, what is the plot device, thing that's going to happen, that is to start the ball rolling, you know? I had thought of the mystery box. Okay, you don't know. So why does the audience need to know?

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: What's going to happen? You don't have to reveal it in the cover blurb. You don't have to reveal it until you know

Matt: Sure.

Christina: on. Keep the audience in the dark, make them wonder, you know what it is. And then, of course, when you figure it out yourself in your first draft, you can absolutely 100% go back to the beginning. Put those things in there that you know. Bring the story together and make it make sense.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: other words, using Lost again, maybe when they figure out what that thing was, that was the mystery of, why are they on the island? What is the smoke monster? When they, figured that stuff out, maybe they didn't know in the beginning.

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: plant those things in there. We don't know what they are. We can figure it out later,

Matt: Yep.

Christina: Which is fine. Which is great storytelling, which is. Maybe before the show aired or before it was filmed, maybe they figured it out in the writer's room. I

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: think there are things that you do have to figure out with that mystery box. I had said to you one of my favorite shows on Apple tv, which I like, would love a second season, but I just don't think it's. Ever gonna be a second season because I'm not sure where they would take it, but hijack

Matt: Mm. Yes.

Christina: and I absolutely loved it because I had no idea,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: What some of his plots and plans and how was he going to do this and what did it mean and what was this and what, there was a lot of mystery bucks with that show. 

Matt: A couple of ones that I've seen like that where it's like Memento, A Memento was another one where, you know, in, in, in a unique way because they started from the end and worked backwards.

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: Right. Um.

Christina: I really am in the film and television medium. I am more of that kind of watcher. Like I'd

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: watch something that is. Totally unique and mind blowing, and go, what did I just watch?

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: Instead of seeing, don't shoot me Iron Man number five.

Matt: How dare you ma'am.

Christina: I said that for your purpose.

 For Robert Downey Jr. Were in it and they had a good script. I'd be watching it

Matt: Yep. Yep.

Christina: But you get what I'm saying?

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: if I've got the choice of, seeing something. That is totally different. am, gonna give that a shot, but the mystery box, can really be a great tool for number of reasons.

 I remember first time I read a romance in first person that made me realize, wow, when you use first person. Not just because it's your comfortable writing voice, but because you're keeping secrets

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: about the other characters that you're not seeing the point of view of. And when that twist happened in that book, I was like, oh no. I mean

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: It was one of those things that you go, man, okay. As a reader, did not think of that.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Holding things close to your chest, that sort of mystery box, type of thing. So you don't, don't just have to use it in mystery.

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: For book purposes, it is that thing that makes you turn the page, even though it is 3:00 AM and you've got a, 10 o'clock meeting that you have to be at, and. You don't wanna put this down, but you gotta put it down and, that sort of thing.

Matt: Yeah, I think too, like to your point, you can do it in different ways that don't have to be specifically mystery or, that horror kind of mystery. Right. It can be, it can really be anything. Bridgeton is an example of using the mystery box in a different way because in this case you have this character that is Lady Whistle down. Nobody really knows who it is. It takes you through the journey through the rest of the story, and there's different storylines that kind of thread around it, but you know, this is

Christina: And.

Matt: a way to use that, that style as well, in a different type of genre.

Christina: Yeah. And what's interesting about that is I bet you didn't read the books.

Matt: Nope.

Christina: We don't know who Lady Whistle down is until book five.

Matt: Okay.

Christina: I mean, it's much later.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: actually surprised with the series that they brought it

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: to the forefront and that, I think it was actually by the end of the first season.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: reveal who Lady Whistle down

Matt: Mm.

Christina: was to

Matt: First or second. Yeah.

Christina: Not to the characters, not to the world, but to. Us as an audience. I think it was actually at the end of the, the first 'cause I was actually like, oh, really? Because that was, you're absolutely right in the books, were all trying to figure out who it was.

It's

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: the bridger's. 'cause they know everything about the bridger's and, yeah. So it, and, and I don't, I don't even think back then, and believe me, I actually read the Duke and I, that was the first book in, in the series back when it first came out.

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: Um, so I had to wait for each one, to come out. And I, I don't even think that we had an inkling

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: of who it was. And in fact, I think we as readers kind of assumed it was someone older in society,

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: Not an actual, young character.

Matt: Yep.

Christina: Penelope, who was so in love with Colin from the very beginning. but yeah, that's, that's absolutely perfect example of the mystery box of using it as not only a literary tool, but , a mystery, to weave the show around. yeah. Yeah. Perfect example.

Matt: Yep. Yeah, and I think, you just, you have to think about, maybe it's just one element of your story. Maybe it's the entire story. Like you can scope it in and out. However you want, right? This is not a one size fits all approach where you have to,

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: to be the entire story. Everybody's in the dark until the end.

Or it can be one specific thread that runs through that story

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: and still have that same allure because people are trying to figure it out as they go, and they want to know, and it's just, it's in our nature as humans to wanna figure out the answer to the question.

Christina: Yeah. And I think, like I said, for television and film, it is the thing that most keeps me engaged.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: I, I can't tell you how many times I read a book. I'm watching TV or because there really isn't anything that I can't, like if I don't hear it, can't catch up later

Matt: Sure.

Christina: TV repeats itself or or it doesn't really matter because they'll, lead us to it later, whatever.

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: but those few shows where you have to be completely engaged. Otherwise, if you miss something and again, using the visual medium. it. You don't wanna look away because are you gonna miss a little detail, you know? The same can be said for a book. It just, comes across differently where, if you skip a paragraph and then lay like, did I miss something?

And then you go back to that same paragraph and, so it's a little bit different in that way. But yeah, I think, i, I think it is a really, really great tool to use in storytelling. And you can use it because you've planned it from the very beginning.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: You can use it if you don't know exactly where you wanna go with, like something happens, but I don't know what that something is.

Well, until you can, get there, who's the, who's the evil person or who did the murder, or, you know.

Matt: Yeah. Yep,

Christina: If you don't know how you wanna twist it, make it the mystery of the show

Matt: yep, yep. Would you say Heroes, the Show Heroes was a mystery box.

Christina: Um, yeah,

Matt: I kinda struggled with that one. I was looking, thinking back on it, I'm like, Hmm, I think so.

Christina: yeah, I think it was a little bit of a mystery box, but I think there are some things that they. So have a little bit different opinion on that one too, is I think that they were ahead of their time

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: and I think, sometimes with network television, it can put on constraints that, when the streamers were first coming out really kind of broke out of was those constraints. And so there are some shows that started on streamers, like when streamers. Were first starting to put out shows, Thea Sense eight Stranger Things, again before these other things, where yeah, I mean they were able to use creativity in a different way.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: I think using that mystery box was not something, and again, okay, going back to lost. Was only a three season arc, so JJ Abrams and, I forget the other one's, but if someone said it, I'd be like, yes, that's it. When they created this, they did it on a three season arc.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: when the first episode aired and it exploded, figurative, very figuratively and literally, a, b, C came back to 'em and said, we can't just do three season. We, we need it bigger.

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: And that's what they kind of struggled with is how do you extend it if we've got this three season? So there's a lot of thoughts, that, and back then there wasn't a lot of, social media on, I don't even know if there was social media at the time

Matt: Sure.

Christina: I don't remember like the water cooler conversations I was having those, the home office

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: when I was at Borders. So I don't remember how much social media was out there.

'cause that's, nowadays that's our water cooler.

Matt: Yep.

Christina: talk why you should also be watching Paradise on Hulu because that's my social, social media right now

Matt: Ah.

Christina: flooded with paradise. no spoilers 'cause you gotta go in blind.

Matt: Yep,

Christina: yeah, so I think that. can also lead you down a road of, these guys didn't have five season plans, they had three, and so when they extended it, lost something.

Matt: sure.

Christina: No pun

Matt: Because you're either putting, you're either putting filler in between each season, or you're having to figure out a bookend. At the end of the part. And either way you're just sort of struggling to make a story fit a box size versus, just writing it for the story.

It is

Christina: Yeah,

Matt: so it struggles. I think the call to action here for you as you're listening to this is just think about how you might use the mystery box in your story. Is it a part of it? Is it the overall story? How does it fit in? And ultimately, how do you. Really drive that? How do you string people along?

Maybe give them a little bit here and there as you go, just enough to keep them, feeling like they're getting somewhere,

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: they're not getting enough to wanna be like, okay, thank God I know it all.

Christina: So what you're saying there is actually, again, something that lost was kind of getting, but then also losing, is that you don't wanna have just question, question, question, question,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: You need some question, question answers,

Matt: Yes.

Christina: question, question answers.

Matt: Yep.

Christina: And it doesn't necessarily have to be like, you can have that first question, be a question all the way through. But you still gotta answer something along the

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: You gotta give it a little, you can't just, have all questions and no answers. 'cause that gets

Matt: A little something. Yeah, absolutely. And you end up putting it down. 'cause there is a difference between a mystery box that drives the audience along with you and a mess of a story that they just go, I just don't know what's happening. Like, I have no idea what's going on.

Christina: give me something.

Matt: Yep.

Christina: No,

Matt: Well, awesome.

Christina: call to action.

Matt: Yeah. Well let us know what you think.

If you've got some ideas around mystery box or some other stories that you think fit the mystery box mold, tell us about 'em. Just drop us a line at either Matt at write out loud pod.com or christina@bookmatchmaker.com. Either way, let us know what you think because we, we actually love hearing from you and we love the little bits that you add into the conversation.

So drop us a line.

Christina: And I'm gonna say for a future podcast, go watch

Matt: Paradise.

Christina: about it Paradise on Hulu,

Matt: Yep.

Christina: Sterling K. Brown, as someone on Thread said. Wow. I, well, I don't even know if I can repeat it. Um, Sterling effing one tier, amazing Brown or something like that. I'm paraphrasing, but it was something like that.

'cause that's absolutely the truth. He is one of

Matt: He is a stunning actor.

Christina: Oh my God.

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: Um, and James Marsden is in it as well.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: and it is, it is as close to perfection as I think. Anything gets, and if you get to episode seven, um, remember to breathe.

Matt: There we go. There we go. Remember to breathe. I think that's good advice for life in general. Alright. Well very good. Thank you. Thank you my dear. And thank you for listening and of course, if you're not doing it. Do it now. Get your voice out there. Get your story out there because that's where it belongs.

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