Behind the Pages: Berkley Publishing’s Erin Galloway on the Art & Science of Publicity

Behind the Pages: Berkley Publishing’s Erin Galloway on the Art & Science of Publicity

Matt: [00:00:00] Welcome everybody to Write Out Loud the podcast on writing, storytelling, authorship, and all of the creative arts that go along with that. I, of course, am Matt Cassem. I'm here with the lovely, the amazing, the stupendous, the incredible, and the just, I don't know, mystical Christina.

Christina: I think this is gonna be a new theme. You have to come up with a new word every time you introduce me. I mean, this is just, I. I don't know what to do with this anymore. Mystical. I do like that

Matt: Mystical.

Christina: I do

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

Christina: that one.

Matt: Mystical.

Christina: and my, you know, mystical creatures.

Matt: That works. That works. I love it. Well, we're back together again, but we are joined by a very special guest, and that guest is, would you like to introduce your guest there, Tina?

Christina: Yes, this is a very, very dear friend from my publishing days. her name is Erin Galloway and she is the director of publicity, [00:01:00] for Berkeley, which is an imprint of Penguin Random House. Welcome

Matt: That's awesome. Welcome.

Erin Galloway: you so much for having me. I am delighted to be here and chat with you.

Matt: That's awesome. Well, Erin, tell us a little bit about yourself and just kinda your background and, and anything that you feel like, you know, you wanna want us to know about you.

Erin Galloway: Yeah. My road to publishing was a fairly straightforward one. I went to college for communications and you know, like a lot of people thought that I wanted to get into journalism. I ran my high school newspaper. I ran my college newspaper, which was a fantastic experience. And then I did an internship at the local newspaper in the city where I went to college. And what all of that taught me is that I liked being in charge of a newspaper. I did not actually want to write. For a newspaper. I remember very distinctly having this conversation with my [00:02:00] mother during my senior year of college because I had applied to something like seven grad school programs. Half of them were masters in journalism programs. And I realized I didn't wanna write for a newspaper. So that was a bit of a problem. And she said to me, what do you wanna do? I said, well, I wanna be in charge. Like from the depths of my soul, that answer came out and she said yeah, we can't be in charge immediately upon graduating, of course. She said, so I get it. You don't wanna write for somebody else. Do you even really want to write. And I thought about that and I said, but I don't think I wanna do it for a living. I wasn't really sure what that meant yet. I knew that the written word was gonna, in some way be part of my job, but I didn't feel like creative writing was necessarily my path, and I wasn't really sure [00:03:00] how to all of the writing that I had been doing. And transition it into a career. And it was a professor of mine actually that said, Erin, have you ever thought about going into a publishing master's program? And I said, well, I mean, I would never like be able to do that how Like I don't live in New York City. You have to live in New York City to work in publishing. And this was true at that time. 'cause this was, you know, now, nearly 20 years ago. And I said like, I, I just don't think that's even possible. And he said, well, I think you should apply to programs and see. So I did, and it was excellent advice because once I actually went and toured some of the schools and the programs, I realized that the publishing masters was the only one I wanted. And in fact, I only wanted to go to New York City and to PACE Universities Publishing program, which I did, it worked out so well [00:04:00] because while studying there. I got a fantastic internship at the now dearly departed Dorchester Publishing, which was an independent mass market commercial fiction publisher that existed for a number of years and that gave me and many other fantastic people in publishing their start. And the great thing about working for such a tiny house is that I wore like eight different hats. I got to do a whole bunch of different things. Having no clue at the time because it was my first job that I would really need to ultimately specialize. so I actually began my career as an editorial assistant and it was a great experience.

I had a wonderful boss team of people around me, and several months after I started that job. The head of publicity in the publicity department of one, you know, that we had left the company for another opportunity and one of the [00:05:00] higher ups said to me, what do you think about moving into publicity and. thought that was, you know, the dark side of book publishing, if you will. It was all about promotion. It wasn't necessarily about the written word anymore, at least in my mind at the time. And I wasn't so sure about that. But had a, a very strong way of putting it. It wasn't perhaps the most tactful, but he said to me, Erin, your mouth is far too big to stay in editorial. And what he really meant by that is like you were a champion of books. You are so enthusiastic, you're so passionate about what you love. I really think you'd be best utilized in a publicity or a marketing role. I thought, well, you know, do I still get to have close relationships with authors? Like that was very important to me. Do I still get to be. Intimately involved with the kind of, you [00:06:00] know, creation of a, of a book, the lifespan of a book, if you will. And yes, of course I would, I would be there right from the beginning from the moment of acquisition or even before acquisition, getting excited about a book. And then, you know, what I always say is I fall in love with great books, and then I help other people realize they should fall in love with them too.

That's my whole job.

Matt: That's awesome.

Erin Galloway: You know, it's not that different than the way an editor falls in love with a book and becomes its champion. I do the same thing. It's just that instead of working really with them on, you know, kind of the line by line the concept editing, instead, I'm the one that just gets to flail all over the place about how amazing it is and do that.

Professionally in a public way with, you know, media contacts. So it really wound up being kind of the, the perfect pathway for me. I got to try editorial, realized [00:07:00] pretty quickly that it wasn't exactly the right fit. But then publicity was, I, I slid into that, you know, as naturally as the second skin. now they, you know, they can't get rid of me. After a couple of years at Dorchester, I moved over. To Berkeley. And Berkeley was a house that I knew I wanted to wind up at eventually specifically because Berkeley published so many of the romance writers that I adored, and it was my dream that I would get to work with a number of them, and that dream came true.

I came to Berkeley in 2009 and I've been there ever since.

Matt: That's awesome.

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: really cool.

Christina: for those of you who don't know, Erin, just the way you described, know, what that boss at Dorchester said about you. I actually don't recall you being the editorial assistant, I only have known you as publicity [00:08:00] and I just can't imagine you doing anything else because he's right.

You're such a champion of books you do it so naturally so it doesn't feel like. Oh, okay.

Erin Galloway: Yeah.

Christina: diving into, you know, the, the publicity here. For those that don't maybe, you know, aren't as familiar with Berkeley, can you

Erin Galloway: Yeah.

Christina: about some of the genres they, they publish

Erin Galloway: Yeah.

Christina: and such.

Erin Galloway: Yeah, we are a commercial fiction publisher, so we do everything from romance women's fiction, to mysteries, thrillers, science fiction, fantasy horror. And even a little bit of literary fiction occasionally. So basically if you read it before you go to bed at night, if you read it while you're at the doctor's office, if you read it on the beach if you read it standing in line at the grocery store on your phone, [00:09:00] we publish it. If you wanna escape, we publish it.

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: That's great.

Christina: I was working at Borders and I was the commercial fiction marketing gal, I called it

Erin Galloway: Yeah.

Christina: fictions. Like, you know,

Erin Galloway: Oh, yes,

Christina: fictions that you, you know, like you said, take to the beach, take to, know, read for

Erin Galloway: yes.

Christina: you know, my point of view, I don't care if it's fun or if it's learning. I think, you know, reading. Gives you something that other things don't, so

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

Erin Galloway: I think you can learn something from any book no matter what that book is. I think the, the fun thing about commercial fiction is the learning is a little less obvious.

Christina: Yeah.

Erin Galloway: You know, if I pick up nonfiction, I am in the mood to learn. I'm going in with that exact intent. I, I like to think that with commercial fiction, we sneak it in there sometimes, and that's okay.

Christina: That. That is the truth. That is the truth.

Erin Galloway: Vegetables in, if you will.

Christina: Yes. [00:10:00] Yes.

Matt: There are those moments where you're reading that book and it's like something happens that you identify with that just, you know, maybe it's sort of happening in your life now. Right. And they sort of finesse it a little bit that you're just like, oh man, that's okay. I know what I need to do. Like, you sort of take a lesson from it, even though that may not be what you intended.

You know?

Erin Galloway: Absolutely.

Christina: Or

Matt: That's pretty cool.

Christina: something about yourself. I mean, Matt and I

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: Quite a bit in season one of our podcast about representation within fiction and how important it is to see yourself in that. And I think there is more

Erin Galloway: Yeah.

Christina: times. Again, an easy way of going in there and just discovering a character, like, you picked this book up for fun and, and suddenly you're seeing yourself in there, or you're discovering something that a

Erin Galloway: Yeah.

Christina: found out about themselves and you're like, oh my gosh.

I. That's me. That's me. So I think there is

Matt: Yeah,

Erin Galloway: Oh, absolutely.

Christina: about it. so let's go back [00:11:00] into again, maybe for audience members that don't know the difference between publicity and marketing. I think a lot of people, Matt is raising his hand. I think a lot of

Matt: like me.

Christina: I think a lot of people kind of think of them as the same thing. So can you give us a little bit

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

Christina: what the differences are?

Erin Galloway: Oh, sure. And I, I will say sometimes the lines blur, especially depending on. You know, the kind of publishing house and, and who does what, because there are probably roles that, like the marketing team does at my company that at a different company or a smaller company, you know, publicity might do. So it does depend, but in general what we call publicity is typically things called earned media. And when we say earned, we mean earned by like your own. Time, blood, sweat, and tears. And that really just means that any. [00:12:00] Booking I'm able to get for an author, whether that is a review an author featured in like a roundup of, you know, the hottest books out this month. you know, blog reviews. A you know, a feature in a newspaper, whether that be local or national.

An author appearance on the radio, a podcast, or tv. Any of that is earned through my pitching. Like those are not paid opportunities.

Christina: Gotcha.

Erin Galloway: I'm earned. Not based on, you know, my outreach and the relationships that I'm able to leverage. Because hopefully if you're, you know, a good publicist that has been working for any amount of time, you are developing relationships with media contacts and then you're using those relationships to go back to people that you've built up a good rapport with to say, Hey.

You trust me, I know what you like and I have this book that I really think that you're gonna enjoy and that [00:13:00] will be important for your audience. So that's really the, the kind of differences that I'm going after, things that are earned that can't necessarily be bought. It's a

Matt: Hmm.

Erin Galloway: bit of an oversimplification to say, me, you know that publicity is unpaid and marketing is paid. But that kind of makes it a little easier for people to understand because marketing can include things like advertising that can be advertising anywhere. You know, that's advertising from I. The ads that you might see in your local newspaper to ads on podcasts radio shows blog ads, ads on, you know, TikTok or Instagram or even, you know, a major ad in like a magazine or big, you know. National Daily Newspaper. And marketing of course includes a lot of other things like direct newsletter outreach

Matt: Hmm.

Erin Galloway: social media. I mean, we do a lot of our [00:14:00] marketing on social media and digitally and in fact have, you know, dedicated staff members that just work digitally. And we certainly have some overlap sometimes between our two departments where. You know, there might be a relationship that I begin developing with a person, because initially they are a media contact, but over the course of their career, they may transition into what we would call an influencer, someone that's mainly talking about books on a social media platform, as opposed to being, you know, a kind of classic media contact at, you know, a newspaper or even, you know, a full-time blogger. know a number of bloggers that have transitioned from blogging to really influencing and great, I mean, we'll work with you in whatever capacity. You know, you're covering books, it may transition. I may no longer be the person that you're in touch with. It may [00:15:00] become a person from our digital team. And that's just to kind of keep a, you know, a natural breakdown of we only have so many people working in the publicity and marketing departments, so we have to kind of spread the wealth in terms of who does outreach, but. In general, my job is earned media placements and then things like, you know, planning any bookstore events that an author might be doing. So that can be, you know, full on formal national tours or it can be, you know, a couple of smaller events. And by smaller I just mean more regional. So not necessarily traveling the author extensively. It could be just partnering with their local bookstore. I. I set up a lot of signed pre-order campaigns so that authors can work with a local store and, you know, hopefully get their pre-order numbers up and just, you know, kind of drive excitement for the upcoming book that they have. And of course I also [00:16:00] oversee, like, if we have a presence at a conference or a convention you know, easy examples would be like San Diego, ComicCon, New York ComicCon. There's so many reader and kind of fan, you know, conventions as well as festivals and all sorts of different opportunities for authors to appear in person. in some way either me or someone in my position is kind of handling all of that. And it's generally a publicist.

Christina: Wow, that just

Matt: awesome.

Christina: the scope of what you do, I mean, that's, that's incredible. Maybe break it down a little bit. I mean, maybe not like on a day-to-day basis, but maybe a weekly basis. what's the typical. All day in the life of, I mean, it sounds like you're constantly to people, emailing, but Yeah.

What

Erin Galloway: Yes. I mean, I think one of the things that I like about this job is that no two days are [00:17:00] exactly the same. The responsibilities are certainly similar or cyclical. You know, you know what you'll be doing every week in one way or another. You're pitching. Typically a number of different books because of course you're working on many books at a time. so you're always pitching media, you know, whether it be the book that's coming out six months from now, or the book that's coming out a month from now, and what that pitching looks like will vary because you can't pitch Cosmo to cover a book that's coming out next week. You know, you have already been pitching Cosmo for eight months, you know, so you're pitching them very far in advance, whereas. With a blogger, for example, their lead time is quite a bit shorter, so you might be pitching them two to three months before a book comes out. local radio works on an even tighter schedule. You might be pitching them four to five weeks before a book comes [00:18:00] out. podcasts really vary because a lot of podcasts run seasonally. So we try to kind of hit them about as early as I would normally hit, like a long lead magazine. So like a Cosmo or, know, a Good Housekeeping or a gq, you know, those we're reaching out to very far in advance, you know, kind of in the six to eight month range and podcasts. We do that too now because so many of them have to really plan their seasons out far in advance. That's sort of the, the main pitching I would say. And in addition to that, that's sort of how I look at the, the media pitching. Then there's the, the other pitching, which would be events. So if I have an author that, you know, I know is gonna do a local event and maybe lives in a area where it's very easy for them to drive an hour and get to [00:19:00] another major market. Okay, great. Maybe we can do two markets that are close to home. So I'll be pitching, you know, bookstores, pitching bookstores that I think are ideal, you know, for that particular author, for whatever reason. You know, for example, I work with a lot of romance authors, so of course I'm looking for bookstores. That have a really strong track record of doing great romance events, we are blessed to have a number of romance only bookstores in the United States now, which is a true thrill because that was not true. You know, even eight years ago,

Matt: Hmm.

Erin Galloway: we have a number. But in addition to that, so many other bookstores have become really strong supporters of romance, particularly in the last five to six years. So I know the best bookstore in St. Louis, Missouri to host a romance event. You know, I know the best bookstore in [00:20:00] Washington DC to host a romance event.

Matt: Hmm.

Erin Galloway: And work with those stores to, you know, hopefully bring my author there. And we have similar, you know, situations. If you write horror novels and we publish you, we know the stores that are appropriate for that.

We certainly know where to send science fiction fantasy authors. Seattle is definitely the motherland in many ways, and Pacific Northwest just does really, really well with science fiction and fantasy and urban fantasy. So it's, you know, using all of the sort of knowledge that I have or that any publicist has to go out and to get as much media as we can, as well as whatever, you know, event lineup that we are looking for. then, you know, we're also pitching authors for opportunities like, you know, festivals or conventions that we think would be a great fit for them. San Diego ComicCon and New York ComicCon are certainly popular ones, but there is also Emerald City [00:21:00] ComicCon. There is C two E two in Chicago. I'm I. are so many events and things that are taking place constantly, not to mention literary festivals, that we're always trying to keep our eye out for what could be a fit.

Christina: Yeah.

Erin Galloway: You know, what's new, what's popular what is gaining like more of a groundswell in terms of support? Because new events, you know, come around pretty much every year. Someone will launch a new type of event in one city or another, and sometimes they're one-offs, but sometimes they become annual events. And as publicists, we're always keeping our eye on. What's happening, how people are responding, how many readers are attending and is the audience right for our, you know, authors and oftentimes. [00:22:00] Yes. You know so we're always trying to be mindful of what can we do that will get our authors in front of as many eyeballs as possible, and right eyeballs, the kinds of people that are gonna be interested in reading whatever the book is.

Christina: Yeah,

Matt: awesome.

Christina: it, it, it

Matt: So.

Christina: to me when you started describing, you know, all of the various things in the time, like you must have this like, massive calendar on the wall of like book one, six months out, three months out, you know, I mean, it's just a massive Undertaking. 

Erin Galloway: Yes.

Christina: I'm sure that you've got a long list of authors, you know, that you're, you're working on too.

So it's like you've gotta on one hand, you know, keep the time.

Erin Galloway: Mm-Hmm.

Christina: hand, you've gotta keep like the number of books and their time, so Wow.

Erin Galloway: Yes.

Matt: Yeah.

Erin Galloway: we have for new [00:23:00] publicists coming in a very specific kind of timeline grid that we give to everyone. When they begin, and it is to help them understand really the lifespan of a book

Matt: Hmm.

Erin Galloway: You know, for me it is second nature, but it should be, I've been doing it for a really long time. I all, I have, I say now like just a predisposition to know the exact time in which things should happen. I have like an internal time clock that's like, did we do this? Have we done this? Where are we on this? We should already have it done by next week. But yeah, I mean, I better after doing it for nearly two decades, whereas somebody new coming in. It's a lot to keep a pace with. So we do have a really clear outline for everybody to kind of plug their books into and really understand, oh, okay, here's the process.

And it feels a lot less overwhelming when you're able to plot it all out on a calendar and go, [00:24:00] oh, okay, this is when I'm pitching me is this is when I would pitch these books. Because you're not pitching a book one time. You're pitching a book constantly. You know? I mean, I would, I don't pitch one book a week.

I pitch every single book that I am working on every week in one way or another. I. Maybe I'm sending slightly more pitches out one week for a particular romance in the weeks leading up to Valentine's Day,

Christina: Yeah.

Erin Galloway: I know that media goes for lowest hanging fruit. So your media outlets are gonna look for Valentine's Day coverage for a number of these romances.

Great. So I'm gonna really wait a bunch of my outreach to that, You know, I would maybe wait my, like, obviously I'd be waiting my Mother's Day pitch for a whole variety of types of fiction to closer to May naturally. So you're just sort of figuring out like your own natural cadence as a publicist, but then also being mindful of [00:25:00] like what each book needs. What's normal in the lifespan of a book and keeping in mind like, what's happening in the world. So can you tie something to particular, you know, dates or obviously beach reading, summer reading, vacation reading, Halloween and scary season. Like these are all things we try to keep in mind so that we can take advantage of them for our authors.

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: Yeah. I love that. I love that. One of the things you had said too was, you know, there's constantly things kind of popping up from events and, and you know, different types of, you know, conferences or what have you. Are there any, I guess, would you say, are there any kind of like innovative new types of things that are popping up that are, or that you've seen very recently that you're really kind of excited about that maybe is different than what you've done before?

Erin Galloway: I mean, it feels like things are always changing and yet in other ways things stay the same. It's kind of the nature of [00:26:00] publishing. We are a very unique animal in that publishing is in some ways a very. Antiquated system and in others is like in constant shift. So it's a very, you know, unique dichotomy to work in an industry that is, you know, in many ways, very old has. A very set way of doing things and it can take a long time to change the way that those things are done.

Matt: Sure.

Erin Galloway: and I mean more like processes as opposed to anything else. And yet because. We are part of the media landscape. The media landscape moves at like the speed of light.

Matt: Hmm.

Erin Galloway: we are trying to kind of vacillate between these two, like somewhat extremes and it is a very unique place to be in. I mean, when I came in to the industry. would say that kind of digital coverage [00:27:00] of books was really starting to hit its moment. Like blogs were popping up all over the place certainly blogs are still all over and new romance blogs and kind of general commercial fiction blogs launch almost every day. the sort of, I. Boom of the blog I think has plateaued and the boom that we see now is much more on social media. a couple years ago it was Instagram, you know, that was the end all, be all. You wanted images of your book on Instagram, you know, being artfully arranged with, you know, photos of. Coffee or delicious treats what was my other favorite one?

Like, so Sunday that would be people in socks with books. Like, I mean, really like fun stuff

Matt: Yeah.

Erin Galloway: you know, now it's TikTok.

Matt: Hmm.

Erin Galloway: that's been true [00:28:00] for probably the last two to three years. And you know, every so often there's gonna be a new thing. And for us, how do we capitalize on that new thing, whatever it may be. And there's plenty of people that will tell you that they can like sell you, you know, the magic bullet to going viral on TikTok or. Going viral in any way. And I mean, there is no like magic, you know, route to doing that. And we've had so many people ask us, like, you know, how, how do we get this book all over TikTok? And the truth is, I have no idea.

Matt: Mm-Hmm

Erin Galloway: no idea the, the things that hit big on social platforms. That are not covered by like a celebrity, for example, because you

Matt: mm-Hmm.

Erin Galloway: in that case, like it is what it is, but if they're not being covered by a celebrity and, and even that's not a guarantee. [00:29:00] But really it's organic reach.

It's somebody that says something that other people find interesting and it just grows.

Matt: Hmm.

Erin Galloway: you know, a perfect example would be Ruby Dixon's Ice Planet Barbarian series.

Christina: Yeah. Yep. Yep.

Erin Galloway: great fun and selling. Well, Ruby had been publishing those for years they hit on TikTok and all of a sudden she and those books were everywhere. And I mean, no one was more delighted than her, but it was certainly not something that she tried to make happen or ever expected to happen. It just happened and. You know, then she came to us and said, you know, are you guys interested in the print rights so that we can get these out to a much larger audience?

And of course we were, we were thrilled. So we've been able to. You know, bring them to, you know, your local bookstore. Colleen Hoover is probably one of the most obvious examples. Colleen had been [00:30:00] publishing for years to, to quite a bit of success and then really hit the next stratosphere on TikTok.

And it was sort of funny to me. When, you know, I had friends that in my life that I would say are readers, but are more of what I would call like the buzzy readers. Like they're the readers that are picking up books because they hear people talking about it on like the news or you know, on whatever, like Instagram, you know channels that they follow. And I remember somebody saying to me like, have you heard of this Colleen Hoover? And. Yeah, yeah. Hearing of Colleen Hoover for over a decade, where have you been? But again, this is not a person that's in, immersed in books every day, so of course they weren't aware. You know, so outside of social channels, podcasts are certainly, you know, kind of the, the, I would call like more, I don't, I don't know if traditional media is really the way to phrase it, but the maybe [00:31:00] one of your kind of broadest you know, and fastest growth kind of media channels.

Matt: Hmm.

Erin Galloway: I will say that the challenge with podcasts for commercial fiction has been. That so many podcasts don't interview authors unless they are a podcast focused on writing, which of course makes sense because if you are a podcast that is focused on, you know, certain lifestyle topics, for example. Interviewing an author might not necessarily make sense for you unless know the author is, for example, you know, say you're covering like wellness in whatever, you know, form that looks like, it's just such an easy catchall term. But if you're covering wellness, you could have a million different experts on from all different areas, but they are probably nonfiction writers.

Christina: Great.

Erin Galloway: So a fiction writer, it's a little bit more difficult. You know, if you are maybe a. Fiction writer that talks a lot about creativity. Maybe you can wind up [00:32:00] on a podcast where you're talking about creativity. But in general I find that it is a little harder unless you're going for more of a really specific audience.

So podcasts that cover, you know, horror obviously that's perfect for horror authors.

Matt: Mm.

Christina: Yeah.

Erin Galloway: a. It talks a lot about mystery thrillers. We're gonna be pitching you for our mystery thriller authors, and clearly on the romance side, we have no shortage of fabulous podcasts. So we work with a lot of them for our romance authors.

But in terms of your kind of, you know what I, I think of as some of the top podcasts that you'll find if you go to like the Apple, you know, podcast section. Like most of our fiction authors that are writing probably are not gonna wind up on you know, those on a regular basis because they just don't have as many fiction authors appearing.

Matt: [00:33:00] Sure.

Christina: So, you know, I know you talked about the whole going viral and Colleen Hoover and, and Ruby Dixon and stuff. That aside, 'cause we know. That's success. That's, you know, where you kind of

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

Christina: But how do you like measure success? And by

Erin Galloway: Mm.

Christina: don't mean like, you know, again, the viral stuff goes viral.

We know that's success. But what are

Erin Galloway: Worse.

Christina: of things

Erin Galloway: Yeah.

Christina: okay, this is a win, this is a win when we get this,

Erin Galloway: Yeah.

Christina: a win when we are able to do this.

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

Erin Galloway: For, for publicists, our wins typically come in the form of media. So that'll be, you know, if I can get an author, a New York Times book review, obviously that's fabulous. That's like a great white whale. Other, you know, kind of brass rings would be Washington [00:34:00] Post review or interview USA today, you know, review or, or coverage in a meaningful way. a morning show interview

Matt: Hmm.

Erin Galloway: would be fabulous. So, good Morning America. The Today Show. Those are obviously major wins. An interview on a night show. I mean, any interview like for books with Jimmy Fallon is fabulous. Seth Meyers is great for books. The Tonight Show is good for books. The Daily Show is good for books. Those are of course the most challenging places to place your author. But that is why they are like holy grail items. They are the things that you want the most as a publicist, but there are so many other things there. NPR, whether it's, you

Matt: Hmm.

Erin Galloway: air or Weekend Edition or Wbu here and now. Or npr.org, which of course has the book Concierge and so much other [00:35:00] fantastic book coverage.

And then there are, you know, major women's magazines, major men's magazines, entertainment magazines, people magazine. There is no shortage of fabulous outlets that I would love covering my books. That's for sure.

Christina: Yeah. So I guess, you know, for maybe authors that are new, they've got a first book out, you know,

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

Christina: just starting. what advice you give, how to best work. your publicist, if you're working with a, you know a traditional house or maybe

Erin Galloway: Mm-Hmm.

Christina: and you're gonna hire a publicist, or you're gonna try to do your own publicity, how best can they work

Erin Galloway: Yeah, I mean, if whether you're working with an in-house publicist that's provided to you or you've chosen you know, to hire someone yourself, most important thing I think, is to [00:36:00] come to, you know, your first conversation with that person with some goals in mind, or at least a. Wishlist because it's really helpful for the publicist to know what you're aiming for. Trust me, your publicist is gonna have goals of their own. 'cause I always come in like with my own set of goals, apart from what the author wants. I have things that I really want to satisfy myself.

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

Erin Galloway: of those things will likely dovetail with what the author wants. But some things like, I may not even tell the author necessarily that I'm going for because they're like brass rings that the author might not even have in their site yet. But I do.

Matt: Hmm.

Erin Galloway: But it's helpful to come in with a wishlist. Now, here's where I tell you the truth. Your publicist may need to manage your expectations because if you are a very first time author and you're saying, I really wanna be on the Today Show, [00:37:00] well, I mean, my answer to that is like, yeah, I, I want a million dollars, but not likely for a very first time author. To be on the Today Show with their very first book. It just isn't. and that's okay. But if you can come in with some sense of, you know, here's what I'd really like, I really wish, you know, for this novel that I could get a review in. You know, I'm from, st. Louis, I really want an interview and a review in the Post-Dispatch. Great. Those are really normal and appropriate goals. Fantastic. I'd really like to get a local NPR interview. Awesome. And having that sense of what you want provides a jumping off point. It

Matt: Hmm.

Erin Galloway: guys to have a conversation around what's important to you. I also think it's really handy if you can come in with. [00:38:00] Thoughts about, you know, what makes your book stand out? Why is it special? What about this book is going to capture readers? And like, look, I'm, I'm not asking you to write your, you know, my pitch for me, but I wanna know why you, as the writer, feel so passionate about this book. the reason you feel passionately about it is the writer is different than the reason I feel passionately about it, because at the end of the day, I'm just what I would call like an expert reader. So I'm thinking the way a reader would think and then putting on my publicity hat and saying, okay. Now what, you know, angles can I be using to pitch this book, you as the author, like know what your inspiration for the book was. There might be all sorts of interesting like tidbits that I'm unaware of. You know, we have a book coming up this summer and the author shared with me, I. You know, one of the things that really inspired this book was my experience moving from a very small [00:39:00] town to a major metropolitan area. I'm an introvert and I had to learn how, like, how to make friends as an adult and create a whole new community for myself.

Christina: Wow.

Erin Galloway: you know, at a really challenging time during a pandemic. Like how do you do that? I thought, oh, that makes perfect sense how that informed your character's journey, because of course, I'd already read the book. I had my own thoughts and feelings about that character's journey, but that was a whole new layer that I got to add on, and it really helped us when we started formulating that pitching. So having some of that like background information to share with your publicist. Invaluable because that informs our pitches and gives us a lot of, you know, ideas.

Christina: And, and makes the pitch more interesting for the

Erin Galloway: Yes.

Christina: on the other side. 'cause you

Erin Galloway: Oh, yes.

Christina: you [00:40:00] just explaining that about the author. I mean, I'm interested in the book, you know,

Erin Galloway: Right.

Christina: imagine someone receiving that pitch, you know, in media, in print or whatever, you know, would be like, oh, you know, I can do something with that, you

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

Christina: And actually it, while you were talking, it also reminded me Valentine's Day locally where I live Larissa Aion was on our local news and I'm like. She

Erin Galloway: amazing.

Christina: And it, again, it, it does make it really interesting. So those are

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

Christina: really great ideas, on how to work with your publicists to make their job easier, to make the medias response easier. and even, you

Erin Galloway: Yeah.

Christina: give some ideas to those indie authors that maybe aren't familiar. You know, with what to do for publicity.[00:41:00] 

Erin Galloway: Oh, And on the, the kind of hiring and outside publicist angle, I always want people to kind of go in armed with as much information as they can because you wanna hire the best person for you, right? So I always say, you know, contact several different people. Ask for quotes ask them for some references.

Talk to

Matt: Hmm.

Erin Galloway: they have worked with in the past and that they're working with currently so that you can get a really good sense of, this person's style going to work for me? Because you know, you wanna be sure that you're gonna be happy. How often are you gonna hear from this person? What, what are they going to be doing for what you're paying for them? You know? Because the truth is no one can guarantee you anything.

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

Erin Galloway: promising you that they can. can't be entirely truthful because it's not paid. You can't guarantee, you know, [00:42:00] anybody anything because you can't pay for a New York Times book review.

You can't pay for a major morning show appearance. So you really want to understand what their pitching is gonna look like, you wanna make sure that what they are proposing to you feels realistic to you. You know, does it seem appropriate based on the timeline that you have? If they're talking about, you know, major daily newspaper coverage, but we're two or three months out from publication, that's gonna be really hard to get,

Matt: Hmm.

Erin Galloway: you know, starting from scratch.

So just really making sure that you feel like what you are getting in the proposal is realistic, that the price point feels realistic for you. Because these are not inexpensive services by any means. And I just want everybody to go in to, you know, spend whatever it is they're comfortable spending [00:43:00] and feeling like they are really getting something for. That investment of their, you know, hard won resources. 'cause there are plenty of good and successful, you know, freelance publicists out there and you just wanna make sure that you're picking the right one for your book. That they have an expertise in the area that you're writing in and that they have really solid media relationships.

And if you can see evidence of that. An evidence of great bookings that they've gotten for other authors, ideally in the very recent past. Then, you know, proceed. But I, I just want everybody to have some sort of like bumpers in mind or standards so that when they, you know, kind of do their outreach and try and find the person that's right for them they feel informed.

Matt: That's awesome. I, I do have a question about you because something you said just sort of tri tripped it in my head and, you know, you mentioned like, of course I've read the book and so I have sort of an idea of what this is, right? Like there's only so many hours in [00:44:00] a day.

Erin Galloway: Hmm.

Matt: How many of those hours do you spend reading?

I.

Erin Galloway: Yeah. I wish I could say that I got to read during work hours. Not true. No publicist reads during work hours. We all read like in, you know, in our, our personal lives.

Matt: Hmm.

Erin Galloway: so yeah. And that's true for editors too. No editor edits during their workday. So like, mean, I say that the homework doesn't go away when you get a career in publishing because you are always reading for work.

If you're not reading a book that you're working on, you're reading a book that like one of your colleagues or your direct reports is working on. I mean, I. I try and read a number of the books that my direct reports work on so that I can talk intelligently to them about you know, the strategy for the books that they are working on, and be sure that I'm. You know, we are able to come up with the best campaign possible. And then I also read books that we don't publish. Yes for fun, but also to [00:45:00] kind of know what else is out there so that I'm really aware of the marketplace. I will say that in some ways it was easier pre pandemic when I was commuting into the office every day, because that was two, two plus hours of uninterrupted reading time every single

Matt: Oh yeah.

Erin Galloway: On the subway. it is different now that I don't commute into an office every single day. So my reading looks a little bit different. I mean, I still read all the time. I can't really not read. I mean, I think if you work in publishing it's because you can't imagine

Christina: Right.

Erin Galloway: know, anything else.

Christina: Yeah. Yeah.

Matt: Sure.

Erin Galloway: But yeah, so it, it is a lot of reading that is

Matt: That's awesome.

Erin Galloway: when people ask me like, biggest perk of working in publishing, I always say like, I. All the reading material one could desire.

Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I just need to take this little snippet of this conversation to my accountant so he can understand why it is I've got this, you know, budget for books.

Erin Galloway: Oh, if only, right? Like [00:46:00] people just don't understand and the accountants do not seem to get it. It's rude.

Christina: No. No.

Matt: Well, that's awesome. Well, listen, this has been fantastic and really, really excited that, you know, you chose to, to join us and kind of share your, your wealth of knowledge with us. Is there anything else that you think we should know?

Erin Galloway: Well, I can't leave without sharing a few fabulous books that I'm very excited about coming

Matt: Yes.

Erin Galloway: and this feels a little. It feels a little mean because they're not on sale yet, but they are coming soon-ish.

Matt: Okay.

Erin Galloway: so the first book I'm really excited about because it's a debut novelist and I love talking about debut novelists. So this book is called, when I Think Of You by Maya Ariel, and it's a really knockout debut. I'm. If you love like deeply emotional romances and are a fan of Jasmine Guillory and you know, Kennedy Ryan or even [00:47:00] Carly Fortune, then I, I think this book is for you as a reader. It's a second Chance Romance between Khalia Wilson a receptionist at a film studio and a hot shot movie director Danny Prescott. They were classmates in film school. after years behind the reception desk at a movie studio, K's dream of being a film producer seems incredibly far away. So when Danny, the man who broke her heart in film school says he wants her to join him on the most important production of his career, the real life love story of his parents falling in love in the Jim Crow South. She knows she cannot turn down this opportunity.

Christina: yeah.

Erin Galloway: And as they work together to make this really emotional movie they start to open up to each other and of course rekindle that very special connection that they had years before. But Hollywood Politics and [00:48:00] Scandal threaten to sink the production, and both of them will have to decide what they are willing to do, both for their careers and for love. And like the heroine, the author, Maya moved to Hollywood with big ideas and dreams only to find herself answering phones for four years as a receptionist at Universal.

Christina: Wow.

Erin Galloway: she went on to do something even cooler. She earned a master's degree in specialized journalism for the arts from the

Matt: Hmm.

Erin Galloway: of Southern California, where she now works as chief program officer of a research center for black media and social justice, which is amazing.

Matt: That is amazing.

Christina: That sounds really

Erin Galloway: So

Christina: I think you're gonna have to give me a list once you know podcast of all of these books.

Erin Galloway: fair.

Christina: Yeah. else you got?

Erin Galloway: And and the other one, because you mentioned that you were intrigued by the author whose novel, was informed by her experience of, [00:49:00] you know, moving to a major city, in her case, London. I have to tell you about this book, the Love of My Afterlife, and this is like my pick for the summer because I. Know that this book is going to be big. Like I very much got the tingle when I read it. I just know that people are gonna fall in love. It's like Emily Henry meets the good place and flea bag, like

Christina: Oh.

Erin Galloway: all rolled into one.

Matt: Nice.

Erin Galloway: A recently deceased woman meets the one in the afterlife waiting room and scores a second chance at life and love if she can find her, Mr.

Wright back on earth and get him to kiss her consensually before 10 days are up. A wild premise. I know. So it's about this woman Delphi whose life was forgettable and whose death is a complete embarrassment. After choking on a microwavable hamburger, [00:50:00] meets the hottest man she's ever seen in the afterlife waiting room. And the two share a moment, but then he's abruptly sent back to the land of the living. And when she's offered the chance to return to earth to find this hot, mysterious stranger, obviously Delphi grabs it.

Matt: Hmm.

Erin Galloway: but to find one man in London, a city of millions, she has to ask for help and be brave enough to open herself up in ways she's never been able to do before. This book to me feels like. The, the things that I love about Beth O'Leary and Emily Henry in that the book is at the same time aspirational and entirely relatable. You know, the author has together these like themes of loneliness, grief, self-discovery, all into a, a romcom that is just filled with laugh [00:51:00] out loud moments. And really, it packs a very surprising emotional punch it because it, it explores like, you know, deeper questions about like, love and life and even death. But it has the, you know, comic appeal of your favorite rom-com movies. So it, it really reminded me of the film Bridesmaids actually,

Matt: Hmm,

Erin Galloway: in that you come for the irreverent humor,

Christina: yeah.

Erin Galloway: you realize the book actually has something like deeper to say. It's just, it's like a heart squeezer that's like

Matt: let's.

Erin Galloway: that I think I can describe it.

Christina: Wow.

Matt: Oh, that's awesome.

Christina: sounds really good.

Matt: Yeah.

Erin Galloway: And,

Matt: Yeah.

Erin Galloway: last one I will, I will tell you about something a little bit different. Fantasy is obviously, and romantic in general are kind of all the rage at the moment. I. And a book that I would say leans a little more fantasy, but I really think will [00:52:00] have a lot of appeal for romantic readers. comes out this summer and it is called The Night Ends With Fire by Kayak Song. it's this very sweeping fantasy that is Mulan meets the poppy wars

Matt: Hmm.

Erin Galloway: the author was indeed inspired by the legend of Mulan and. It's a really empowering depiction of feminism. It has a snarky dragon, which I love. And it involves like a fabulous love triangle. It's just one of those books that I can't wait for people to pick up. Because it really examines female power and what happens, not just when a woman wants power, but what she does once she gets it.

Matt: Hmm.

Erin Galloway: I remember being, I think I connected with this book because I remember being in women's leadership program or six years ago now, [00:53:00] and. We were all asked like circle on a page.

There were all these different words and they kind of represented different values and we were all asked to. The kind of key values, the things that were the most important to us. And there was a very long list, you know, let's say 30 to 40 terms. And the instructor asked us to raise our hands for, you know, certain words.

And of course there were many words, like lots of people, you know, their hands went up. And the last words she asked was, who circled power? Me and one other woman in the room raised our hands, and thought, that's so weird. Why isn't everybody raising their hand?

Christina: I.

Erin Galloway: And, and then we had a very interesting discussion because it turned out that's exactly what the professor was expecting. And she wanted to have a conversation around like. Why, why is it scary for us to want and ask for [00:54:00] power? And of course one of the things that a lot of them had to say is they've seen, you know, too many masculine people misuse power. And so there there was this like notion that it, it was bad to want it. But I really liked this book because of that idea of like a woman who is desirous of power and what she can do with that power and the challenges that come with having power. I just thought that was such a great way, you know, to explore a tale. And I'm really excited, you know, to to see how people respond to it.

Matt: Heck yeah. It sounds incredible.

Erin Galloway: So, yeah, I mean now I feel like I've teased you with books that you can't quite get yet, but they're all available for pre-order. And I think, I think if people are gonna love them, I'm really excited.

Christina: Yeah,

Matt: That's awesome.

Christina: We will post this with our social media and stuff and we'll put a link to I, I guess maybe a, a Berkeley page that might, you know, have upcoming stuff on it so that they can

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

Christina: the links to [00:55:00] pre-order. That would be great.

Erin Galloway: Great.

Matt: Yeah, 100%. Well, Erin, thank you so much again. Oh God. It was a treat to have you here and this was such a fun discussion. I learned a lot because there's so much I didn't know

Christina: Yeah. And

Matt: as often happens.

Christina: you know, I, I actually felt like I learned a lot too. I mean, this was, this was a great conversation and our

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: a little shocked because normally we're much more interactive, but it was because there was so much to learn and I just wanted you to be able to tell us what you know, so that we can pass that information on. You know to our listeners. So thank you so much for coming

Matt: Yes.

Erin Galloway: Oh, well thank you so much for having me. I mean, talking about books is my day job and, and certainly one of my greatest joys. So always happy to chat about books in the publishing industry.

Matt: Well, fantastic. Again, it's been a delightful conversation with [00:56:00] Erin Galloway, the director of publicity for Berkeley, which is an imprint of Penguin Random House.

So thank you again so much for your time. It's been a, it's been a complete, an utter pleasure.

Erin Galloway: Aw. Thank you both. Take care.

Matt: Alright, bye bye everybody.

Christina: Bye.

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